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? Welcome to the first episode of the Behind The Shield Podcast! Join TC Lee and @mazorrok as they discuss MMORPG games and dive deeper into the world of MMO Tanking.
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#TheTankClub #MMORPG #Podcast
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0:00
Hello and welcome fellow gamers and MMO enthusiasts. Welcome to the very first episode of our podcast
0:18
Behind the Shield. Get ready to dive deep into the thrilling world of MMORPGs with particular
0:26
focus on the unsung heroes of the battlefield, the mighty tanks. I'm TC Lee, your host for this
0:33
exciting journey, and alongside me is my amazing co-host and partner in crime, the ultimate
0:39
authority on all things World of Warcraft tanking related, none other than Masarok
0:46
Hello, hello, how's it going? Blindsided me with that one. Yeah, so together we're here to kind of bring an insight in discussions, expert tips, entertaining conversation about all things tank related
0:59
Before we kick off this adventure, we're going to tell you a little bit about ourselves
1:04
Masarok and I have spent countless hours immersing ourselves into vast landscapes of MMR games
1:10
we've been part of incredible communities for a very long period of time
1:15
battling all kinds of monsters, conquering virtual realms, and we're going to really dive into that
1:21
So speaking of games, I've personally played a wide variety of MMOs
1:26
throughout my gaming career, from the classics like World of Warcraft, Tibia, The Elder Scrolls Online
1:32
and even up-and-coming titles. We've kind of started to look into those as well
1:37
we'll share our experiences and tales from these virtual worlds discussing what we loved what's
1:43
frustrated us and what keeps us coming back for more and you might be wondering why tanking well
1:50
that is a great question maserok and i found ourselves drawn to the noble art of tanking
1:55
in mmos we'll dive into reasons behind our passion explore the unique challenges the
2:01
adrenaline rush of holding the line and the satisfaction of leading our parties to victory
2:06
But it's not all sunshine and rainbows behind the shield. We'll discuss the downsides, the frustrations, and the stress that comes along with the tanking role
2:16
and how to overcome these obstacles. So without further ado, let's jump right into it
2:21
So it's time to introduce you to the amazing world of tanking
2:25
So our World of Warcraft tanking extraordinaire himself, Masarok. Just give us a little bit of information about yourself, Mike
2:32
I've been playing WoW pretty well on and off for a long time
2:38
but lately it's been well on for many many years I started back in the baby
2:44
more vanilla days and finally started really raiding in Cataclysm a lot more which I had all
2:50
three tank, all three plate tanks leveled up in heroic raiding at the time, there was no Mythic
2:56
when that was the primary form of content so I was pretty much doing that at the highest level
3:03
I didn't have Bear at the time but Bear wasn't really really wasn't quite the tank spec
3:08
it was an offshoot of Feral at the time so if you have any WoW buffs back there
3:13
remember that one, it's a little bit different I've been playing but I've always found myself
3:19
drawn to tanking mainly because I really like the support role in things like that
3:24
another thing is it's one of those jobs where when it's done right, it's a good clean run
3:34
Everything goes great. You're having a good time. It's a good clean raid
3:39
And when the tanking is even slightly off balance or off kilter
3:43
it is just frustrating beyond belief for every other roll. And it's amazing how one or two people can affect, you know
3:53
five to 30, 40, depending on your raid size, right? So that was one of the things where I was like
3:57
I'll just do it myself. yeah and then i call it that's it i think a lot of people do get into tanking just from that
4:05
oh that nobody's doing it right no one's doing it correct no one's doing it very good i'm just
4:10
gonna do it like that or nobody's doing it at all it's an easy way to get into whatever content you
4:15
want exactly yeah exactly um so obviously you're a streamer over on twitch you've got your own
4:21
youtube channel as well and obviously creating content on the tank club website um i myself
4:27
obviously I'm TC Lee I've been playing MMO games for 20 years now starting
4:31
off with Tibia when I was a kid up until kind of more recently
4:35
the Elder Scrolls Online for about the last 10 years and like I got into tanking
4:39
myself as well just I had my own raid team over on Xbox
4:43
and our tanks had left the group so it was again there was no tank
4:47
so it's like right I know how to do this I'm going to take over the tank role
4:51
and then that was it and so from that we've kind of
4:55
developed over the last few years to becoming a tank content creator that stemmed from such a lack of content being available and i just enjoyed
5:02
helping people i was already kind of doing that before i started getting into content creation and then that's how what the tank club came about we got the website going started making all the
5:10
videos and here we are today so that is it really um so i guess the first thing really is
5:19
why do we tank so what are your reasons maseruk for tanking in the grand scheme of things what
5:27
is it that keeps drawing in World of Warcraft there is a form of content called Mythic Plus
5:33
and this is where it's a dungeon keystone system where it's an infinitely scaling
5:39
challenging content and back when I got back into WoW when I first
5:47
got back I had left for a couple years came back I was
5:51
as my friends were like our guild needs a warlock we need to warlock
5:55
right back for raid and I'm like cool let's go and i like all my tanks were like a couple levels away like you know i could just
6:02
tank and like no no warlock but trying to get into that mythic plus content as a warlock
6:08
back then was impossible you were sitting and he was just applying to literally everything getting
6:13
spam declined and i was watching tanks just laugh at hit one hey can i join this one
6:20
yeah and point one second later they get an invite and i'm like dude yeah don't figure out
6:25
this is a fun spec i love it but i mean i could just do that yeah well there you go and i immediately
6:31
leveled up another tank and a tank and i never looked back at that point i was like you y'all
6:36
can find another warlock i'm tanking because that's content right it's mythic plus and things
6:41
like that and after that it was there's currently six tank specs in in world of warcraft and it was
6:47
just okay i've gotten all my goals done with one let's level up another yeah and now i'm at the
6:52
point now where every single season that starts up I have all
6:57
six Ripper Road ready to go and I'm tanking on every single one of them. One of the things that
7:02
prompted me to kind of start the channel and go with WoW specifically was
7:06
when I was looking up guides is everyone tells you how to play at the highest level
7:10
but this is such a complicated game that no one tells you
7:14
what baby steps you have to take along the way. Where your
7:18
struggles are going to be, where your little rotation issues are happening, where the synergy
7:22
with certain talents are and it just instead of just here copy paste this build here and hit buttons this is why you hitting these buttons This is why you want to do this and be aware of this this and this
7:36
and take those baby steps along the way. And I even offer more beginner-friendly style, like, talent options and things like that
7:47
Everything they've written here is 100% true. When you're in an organized group and a plus 25
7:52
but if you're just wrapping your absolute pants in your first plus five just take these you're
7:58
going to be fine it's not going to change anything you're you're just going to live and you're going
8:03
to hold more threat that's what it matters and that's why i think this is a big thing for myself
8:09
as well like as i progress into other games and look to make content there's there's already plenty
8:14
of content there for a lot of games but it's not beginner friendly there's nothing there for the
8:18
new players because people just assume that everyone's already there and there's people
8:22
still trying out games older games and i think i when i first started creating content i wanted
8:28
everyone to be optimized and i was trying to teach people okay this is the best class this is the best
8:31
race this is the best everything and trying to really guide people and i had the wrong kind of
8:36
mentality when i first started making content because it was like you can only do this and
8:40
this is the only way to play because this is complete this raid content the trial content
8:44
This is how you do the veteran content. And then after a little while, I started to think
8:48
why am I trying to cater to these end game players who already know what
8:52
they're doing? And then that's when my content really started to take off more was when I
8:57
started to think, okay, the people that are actually typing into what they're doing
9:03
like if you're an end game player, you don't need my help. So I'm kind of creating content for nothing in some ways
9:09
And then I'm giving content to people that aren't ready for it. And they're unable to achieve what I'm trying to tell them
9:14
And it's good to have that, like, touch on that a little bit so people have got something to work towards
9:19
But at the same time, the people who need help are those beginner players who don't know what they're doing
9:23
And even now when I go and play new games like recently played Star Wars The Old Republic
9:28
and I still can't find, like, the beginner information that might be useful
9:32
Like, what do you need to do? What do you do once you get to the level cap? I still can't find that content. So there's opportunities there to go, right, I'm going to create that myself because I can't find it anywhere
9:40
what do you do as a beginner? Everyone just expects that game's been out a long time
9:45
you're going to be an endgame player. Well I've only just started playing I've got no idea and I'm sure
9:49
there's other people like me in that same situation. Then try stifting for all the information
9:53
from every other season and every other patch and all of that
9:56
now irrelevant information because none of it is accurate anymore right? There's so much like old information out there as well
10:03
like you type in any game tank build tank guide you'll all this stuff crops up from years ago
10:08
I'm not taking mine down. Exactly. This is it. I think one of the reasons
10:16
why I like to tank, if we look deeper into it from MMORPG games
10:23
it's a bit more complex than just being I just tanked because I was needed to
10:27
That was a little bit of it, but I would say as well, in my life, I've come to realize
10:32
that I embody the role of a tank, even outside of the gaming
10:36
world as well. So just like a tank provides a strong protective shell
10:42
I'm the pillar of strength for my family. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm a single dad
10:46
I feel that when I do. And I think like that is part of it as well. So I guide them through life's challenges
10:52
I shield them away from harm. We overcome those obstacles as like a unit
10:56
And that's kind of like the embodiment of that MMORPG tank. So I feel like I transfer that
11:03
That mindset kind of carries over into my gaming life as well
11:07
because that is kind of how I kind of view the world in a lot of ways
11:11
So, yeah, and I find obviously a lot of satisfaction by being a powerful tank
11:17
So, yeah, I think that's a lot to do with it as well, not just the gaming side, but the real-life mentality side as well
11:24
Yeah, quite the same here. Like, I can reverberate off that statement quite as well
11:29
But also, I've always had, like, whenever I've played a new game or anything
11:34
I've always kind of deviated a little bit more to the support role
11:38
Yeah. And that's always been really, really fun for me. But in a game that has a holy trinity, you know, tank, healer, DPS
11:44
support is really not usually a thing, right? And tank and healers tend to fall into some sort of subcategories of support
11:53
Yeah. To an nth degree. It's not obviously a full support class, but I mean, it can be in some specs
11:59
Like, there are certain specs in WoW now where you're off-healing, you're providing damage immunities to people
12:06
and you're doing a bunch of different stuff and all while doing
12:10
the primary role of tanking and that's something that I've always kind of resonated with
12:13
really really well. Not to say that you shouldn't be supporting stuff as DPS by the way
12:17
supporting tanks in here use utilities but it's primary utility based mechanics tend to fall on
12:28
tank and healer first to do because the faster the encounter dies the faster
12:32
you get through it so you want more damage so you obviously use the two lower the damage dealing
12:36
specs or rolls to get it done and I'm fine with that, that's okay
12:41
but that's kind of why I was like alright, yeah, I'll stun the thing, I'll get that, I'll get that
12:45
I got it, I got it, I got it and it's just kind of like, how much more can I get? that's come to the little game, how much more can I get
12:51
how much more can I do? I always start to regret being a tank quite early on
12:55
because I always think to myself, right, I'm going to start a new game so like, let's say, start playing a new MMO
13:00
I'm going to be a tank because that's my thing that's what I like to do But then it's when you start actually getting to the group content
13:06
That's when I start to think, I don't know what I'm doing now. I'm a bit nervous because I don't want to make mistakes
13:11
I don't want to make it hard for my group. And so, I don't know, I try to find communities out there to join
13:20
so that it doesn't seem as bad because I just, I don't know. I like being the tank role
13:25
I like being that kind of leader. I like guiding people towards that victory and overcome those hurdles
13:31
and all that kind of stuff. but although I do feel like I am a strong leader character
13:38
it's difficult to actually hop in. Like when I did play World of Warcraft
13:42
at the start of the year, and that kind of really put me off a little bit
13:48
in some ways where I'm a very, very confident tank in the Elder Scrolls Online
13:53
I'm all right, I'll be able to play World of Warcraft and then find out it's a bit more detailed
13:58
than I was expecting. There's a bit more intricacy to it. and then actually going into the group content
14:04
people just expect you to know everything. And because I'm going in with no idea whatsoever
14:08
and I'm instantly like really became quite nervous and anxious about hopping into that group content now in other games
14:15
because of the anxiety that has kind of developed a little bit from my underperformance in that game
14:20
But I think like it was more of a case I didn't actually know what I was doing
14:24
I hadn't done enough research, but then when you are doing a random dungeon, how can you research of what's going to happen
14:29
and I try and sit there and read through the different mechanics of a dungeon before, right, let's do the random dungeon, but it's going to be
14:34
one of ten, let's have a look at the mechanics and see what might, but yeah, like it's
14:38
I do find it like a little bit stressful in that regards
14:42
of hopping in to a new game I choose that tank role because I just
14:46
like the idea of it and I obviously want to create content from that role, I know there's an opportunity for
14:50
content in that role, but then when it actually gets to the group content, the stress
14:54
starts to kick in a little bit Don know the mechanics don know this Look wow that the best piece of it I guess I could give to anybody looking to tank in World of Warcraft Look there 200 dungeons by now
15:06
that you could end up doing by leveling up, and you are not going to know every single one of them
15:11
I do, like, as much as I've tanked throughout all the years and have tried to do all the content that I can
15:17
I can't. But one of the things that I've noticed that's helped me be better in the dungeon
15:22
that I don't know, or the content I don't know, is the worst thing that you can do
15:27
is be quiet about it. Yeah. And act like you know it
15:31
and just see if you can power through it. The best resources are the other people in your party
15:38
Oftentimes, where I may have leveled a DPS or a healer or something just to kind of enjoy the game in my off time
15:43
and be like, you know what, I just want a few hours of brain-dead leveling, man
15:47
Like, I want to enjoy the game. I'll end up in group content with new tanks
15:52
and like, after the first couple polls, I'm like, you don't know what you're doing, do you bud
15:58
Like, do you want some help? I can help guide you along with the route and things like that. And they're like, oh yeah, but you need to be receptive
16:04
to that as well, right? But if you jump on top of it early on and you say, hey
16:08
look, I don't know this place, I don't know this, you know, I'm still kind of learning some things
16:13
There's four other people in there, and while there might be a couple of , because that's just humanity
16:18
in general, there's usually always a really nice person that's like Don't worry, bud. I got you. I'll mark your way
16:24
Just follow the markers I put along the way and we'll get through it
16:28
I'll tell you to stop before there's any big boss or something and be like, okay, this is what they do
16:33
And you get through it, right? Yeah, absolutely. I've seen things go awry
16:38
is people don't say anything and just try and pretend like they know everything and power through it and then
16:44
are completely unreceptive to any sort of feedback that people are trying to
16:49
give them. Sometimes it's in being spirited, but sometimes like, hey, it's not
16:55
Just because someone says you're doing something wrong doesn't mean they're insulting you as a person
16:59
No, absolutely. And that's one thing with WoW that I've noticed a lot
17:03
is you have a lot easier time if you just open up about being you and you don't know
17:07
right off the bat. Because everybody just wants to complete the content. Everyone's going in there and just wants to get it done
17:12
That's the whole goal. We go into the dungeon, we time it. Or we go into the dungeon, we finish it
17:17
But when things start going wrong, people start going like, what is happening
17:21
Yeah, I think that's one of the good things about streaming. I do like playing these new games
17:28
and then that brings in fresh viewers from that game. And then I quite like people to backseat in my streams
17:36
when I'm playing a new game and be like, oh, hey, do you know you can do this, this, and this
17:40
And somebody in my Discord today, in fact, posted some hints and tips
17:47
because they've rewatched my stream, watch me doing a dungeon in Star Wars
17:51
The Old Republic as a tank and it's like the first time I've ever done like the hard dungeon
17:55
and they were like oh these are a few things that you can fix and it's like that's great I'm quite open to
18:00
criticism, I'm quite open to feedback and information because I think this is why again
18:07
for me I like to be a tank because I like to be a leader
18:11
I've got a real high attention to detail and I'm a fast learner so making
18:15
sense of all the information people give me and then go right now i'm going to go and perform better than i did before i'm going to go
18:22
and do more i've learned from my mistakes i've figured things out people have helped me out and
18:26
then go and kind of take that to the next level in the game and that's how i improve so drastically
18:32
so in such a short space of time is from taking that information and listening to people i'm never
18:37
like a closed book i don't i like to listen to that feedback you know what i mean a quick quick
18:44
slightly off topic question, but kind of on the same thing. Do you have different
18:48
builds for when you're streaming and you know you want to read chat
18:53
I have certain tank builds that when I'm playing, I know they're not
18:56
right, but they're 10 times easier, so I can literally just look at screen and look at chat
19:03
for most of the time and still have that button. It's a lot
19:07
of rotation. I know I'm losing damage and I know I'm not doing okay the best that I could, but it's
19:12
a whole lot easier for me to stay alive and re-chat i i do i have done similar things like
19:19
it depends what i'm doing like if i'm in a group where it's like right yeah you because you've got
19:25
obviously what's the point in streaming if you don't have any interaction with with the people
19:29
in your chat like you've got the the whole point is they're watching you for the entertainment they
19:33
want the interactions so i mean i have set up builds or i'll just do less with the build that
19:39
I've got, knowing that I've got certain things where I've set up more defensively and I can just stand there and take more
19:43
damage and I'm not going to die. And I do take those kind of things into consideration
19:48
And it also depends on what sort of content I'm doing. If I'm just doing like a random trial
19:51
where I've put a group together and there's 12 people, we're going to go and do it. We're just going to get the clear
19:55
No one's checking the uptimes. No one's really bothered. We're just the intention is to clear it
19:59
Then I'm just going to go on the easiest setup possible and I'm just going to clear the content
20:03
because that's what we're there for. But when it gets into that more stressful stuff, right, today we're doing no death
20:07
hard mode speedrun. sorry chat but my focus is right here for the next half hour it's not too bad i think you can
20:17
split it when you've got like that serious content right if you want to watch this real top tier content here's me doing this and i am going to be quiet but then when i'm doing this
20:24
chill content here's my other setup i'm just going to be rocking it and i'm kind of wondering
20:29
if i was like the only person that did that no definitely not like why are you picking these
20:33
talents like why because i can live while i can i can live while not even watching the game that i'm
20:39
playing i think that's it i mean there's been occasions as well where it's like the start of
20:43
a new progression right well we're not expecting like i'm not going to put maximum uptimes because
20:48
we're gonna have like a million deaths so why would i put in maximum maximum effort at these
20:52
early stages i'm just going to chill i've got a different raid leader i haven't got to say anything we're going to just mute the mic we're going to chat to the stream while we're doing it
20:58
And we can kind of do two things at once because it's really close by. And yeah, we're kind of setting up that way
21:03
And then as it gets like further into the progression, it's like, right, I've started to get more kind of automated with how I'm playing
21:11
but now I need to add in those additional things, those extra buffs, those extra debuffs that I was missing because I was too busy focusing the
21:16
chat. Now I need to kind of shift it a little bit, but yeah, definitely, definitely runs kind of slightly different setups
21:23
I was always curious about that. I'm like, am I the only person that does this? yeah so
21:32
it's gotta be done it's gotta be done you gotta entertain the chat now
21:39
well exactly, you gotta keep people entertained and that's one of the things
21:43
what is it like that keeps you playing well specifically because I know you played World of Warcraft for a long time now
21:53
what is it that keeps you playing that specific game what's kept you hooked in for this long
21:58
what keeps you hooked in every new season that comes around there's always something to do
22:04
for $18 a month I have played a lot of games across the board
22:10
I have spent hundreds of dollars on new video games in a month
22:14
and was done them in weeks literally like $300-$400 in new video games
22:20
spent in a couple of weeks and within two weeks of that
22:23
all the campaigns were done there was no replayability there was nothing and meanwhile I paying a sub for a month that I have an infinitely scaling challenging content system that can be as challenging as I want
22:36
I have 20 years worth of back content that I can go through and clear and just have fun and slug around and whatever
22:44
There's, you know, there's new raids every season. There's transmog farming, mount farming, collectible farming
22:51
and then there's just a ton of people that are always playing
22:56
if you really want there's always something to do sometimes you get burnt out on that content
23:01
of course and it can get kind of boring if you're a little bit late in the season
23:05
the raids got a little stale you've done it a little bit too much the dungeons are kind of all the same
23:10
you've hit all your goals and now you're just kind of like whatever, your characters are geared
23:13
but there still is always something to do and honestly it costs $18 a month yeah
23:20
don't get me wrong I love new games I love other games but now
23:26
especially if we look at the gaming industry in the past 10 years
23:29
a lot of these games are being released unfinished and not in a great way
23:35
I'm not paying a hundred of my dollars for a game that's not done with the promise that it could
23:42
be if I'm paying that much money for a new game I want to be able to play that game
23:47
right now in a finish and my processor has been shattered, right
23:54
Yeah. I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that games
23:58
now have this mindset where they can finish it once it's launched because they can patch games now
24:04
whereas you go back 15 years and they couldn't really patch a game so they had to make sure it was all
24:10
perfect when it released or as best as they could do but then also
24:13
it was kind of faster to develop certain games years ago because the technology wasn't as advanced as it is
24:20
now. So we've got the advancement in technology. Everything's more detailed, but then also we can just patch it later. Like when you look at
24:26
I don't know, Cyberpunk as a game, like that was probably, I've never
24:30
seen a game so broken and unfinished like on release. We will patch it later
24:36
Predicting that. I had seen it. I was like, that looks great. My buddy was excited
24:40
I'm like, something tells me, man. I've been burdened in the past by a lot
24:44
of these games I've been excited about. I don't know what it is, but be wary
24:49
And day one, he's like, how'd you know? And I'm like, it's these promises
24:53
that they make. It's kind of the same. They promise you the moon, and they
24:59
deliver you a rock, man. I think with MMOs in particular, I think once you kind of latch onto one
25:08
you've got to stick around, especially if you kind of start to make friends in the game, you start to develop those communities, those bonds with people
25:14
because that's the main draw, I would say, for those MMORPG kind of games
25:19
Because in terms of the gameplay side of things, so many games are just a similar thing again and again and again
25:26
What's the reason to go and leave that game you've invested 10 years into
25:30
to go and play something brand new? And then I also see a lot of these retro-style MMO games
25:35
which are just crappy games that are trying to create that nostalgia effect
25:42
for people to come and join them. but I don't see the reason why you'd abandon a game
25:46
you've put so much time into for 10-15 years to go and play a new
25:50
old looking game I don't really understand a lot of that and especially when they're not doing anything new
25:55
or interesting I think there's been a big stagnation in that and I think that's a lot of the reason why
26:00
nostalgia is always temporary you don't go back to a game permanently because of nostalgia
26:09
that's not how it works if that was the case World of Warcraft would just be doing
26:13
the same thing it's ever done in vanilla and would never be putting any new systems or any new thing in
26:17
right? Like, if WoW didn't stay updated and fresh for the current
26:21
times, like, yes, there's a backlog of content to do, but, like
26:25
even the raids, if you look at the way the raids have evolved over the last 18 years, it's not even
26:29
closely the same, right? It's called the same thing, but, like, you could call them two totally
26:33
different instances from vanilla to WoW and get away with it. Like, and you have to try and keep
26:39
things fresh enough to a point of, like, what it is. Yeah
26:44
The thing that's kept me playing specifically like the Elder Scrolls Online for so long was
26:50
it was the guilds. It was the fact that I was motivated by
26:53
the progression of doing the harder content. It was doing those no death, the hard modes
26:58
the speed runs. I liked the trial content with 12 people, raid content basically
27:03
And that kind of motivated me for a really long time. But then as kind of all of my friends
27:07
started to leave the game last year, that's where now I've started to want to play other games
27:13
and go and experience other things. Because I've only really, before the start of this year
27:17
I'd only ever played, I think, two, maybe three different MMO games, really
27:22
And now we're looking at, I've played probably about 10 or 15. Because I've really kind of ramped up my, right
27:28
I need to go and explore other options. I want to go and enjoy the content. I also want to try and create a new perspective of things
27:34
Like when I go back now and play The Elder Scrolls Online, I've got different perspectives of how things could be done
27:39
and I'm able to come up with new strategies for how things might work because I've
27:43
played these other games. I've played World of Warcraft, Ufana Fantasy, Guild Wars, Star Wars
27:49
kind of everything really. Now I take that and I go back. I don't have the same attachment as I used
27:56
to for ESO anymore. It's just kind of, it's gone away a little bit
28:00
just because I don't have those really strong bonds and those relationships
28:03
that I did have. Did Elder Scrolls have a mass exodus or something
28:08
What happened there? Was it just specifically the people around you stopped playing
28:13
Or was the large portion of the population just dipped? So it's not like the whole population. It's mostly
28:18
the raiding communities that diminished. Around this time last year there was an announcement where
28:24
they posted a list of changes that were going to happen to combat. And they were very, very
28:28
negative. Most people really didn't like them. Then they brought out the PTS, the test
28:32
server. People went on there and the changes were absolutely horrific and they tried to
28:38
claw some of it back which they managed to do obviously they reduced bosses health and stuff like that and it was like why
28:42
are we changing this stuff if we're then making things to make people do more damage or we're reducing bosses
28:46
health like it didn't really make any sense and people lost faith in
28:50
the developers of the game it wasn't like even though they've repaired some of those things
28:54
now and the game's in a good place with the most recent chapter Necron people aren't willing to like come back because they've lost
29:00
like their trust in the people developing the game because of the drastic, massive, humongous changes
29:07
they planned to make. And some of them they did backtrack on. And I do think the game's in a good place, but
29:12
it's just caused such a loss of that endgame community. And it wasn't a big community in the first place
29:20
Do you know what I mean? It's a very casual game, and there's a lot of players in the game
29:24
But there's a very small kind of endgame community. And so when the players were gone
29:30
it was almost impossible to get raids like the end of last year
29:34
And that's when I was like, I'm going to go and play the stuff. I'm going to go and try the stuff
29:37
9.1.5 could very well be known as the patch that ends up killing WoW
29:43
Really? Still. We're in patch 10.1.5, but 9.1.5, last expansion, it could end up being the patch that killed WoW
29:51
There was a mass exodus from the game, and literally, you would see..
29:55
Right now, I'm just hanging out in the main hub city for whatever for my..
29:59
and plays there's so many people here it was like two they did
30:08
a lot of bad decisions but that's also when the whole sexual harassment
30:14
thing was all kind of coming out but 9.1.5 was also a really
30:20
really bad patch yeah so when you combine those two things together
30:23
it just was a spark of you know Cartman saying screw this, I'm going home
30:34
We'll see how the future holds. I think they've done a lot of good with Dragonflight and they've started building back
30:39
the population and saying, hey, look, we understand. 9.1, sorry. My mistake. Let's recount that
30:48
9.1. 9.1.5 is when everything got really, really good for WoW again
30:53
Is when they started making all the decisions. We're sorry. We've heard you
30:58
We're going to start balancing. we're going to start doing these things 9.1.5 was great, 9.1
31:03
was when, yeah, it was a really, really bad patch well that's step one isn't it, taking accountability
31:07
and the same thing happened with the other scores online, so at the end of the year
31:11
there was a letter they posted out and they started to kind of say, well
31:15
we're going to change things now, so they brought out a new class this year, which was the first time
31:19
in about three or four years I think the content that's coming up in the next patch in a couple of
31:25
it'll be on the PTS in a couple of weeks that's focused entirely on bug fixing
31:29
so they've completely abandoned adding two more dungeons to the game and gone we're just going to bug fix
31:34
the hell out of stuff so that's great to hear and quality of life stuff
31:39
and then the last update of the year is usually like kind of boring
31:43
if I'm being honest where they just bring out a new zone but there's not really any like trials there's no raids, there's no dungeons
31:48
there's not really anything to do you can run through it in two hours and then it's done
31:51
and then what do you do till March when the next DLC comes out when you've got nothing but this year they've added in this new game mode
31:57
which is like a nice thing to see so it's going to be an endless dungeon so they they've took accountability they're starting to
32:04
make changes that are positive and it's just now kind of seeing it through and seeing if we can
32:09
bring those players back but it's also having to develop those new relationships find new guilds to
32:14
join but like when you play the game for so long it's also difficult to kind of just go and join a
32:18
guild and then start interacting with people and i think now as well for myself one of the big times
32:23
where I was really, really active was during COVID when I had a lot of free time
32:28
So I had my guilds. I was in guilds. I was very chatty and active and speak to people daily
32:32
I was hopping into voice chats. Whereas now I'm so short on the available time
32:37
to just go and hang out in a Discord and go and chat to people that it's much more difficult to develop those bonds
32:42
and relationships where you're hooked in and you've reeled in because you're part of that team
32:50
You're part of that guild. So you want to be involved in it. and i am in a little team still in yeah so like a little dungeon team we run a couple of nights a
32:57
week and that's fun but i don't have that same kind of drive as i used to for the raid content
33:02
and that end game stuff it's just not there at the minute but obviously it's a game that i care a lot
33:07
about i invested a lot of time so in the future i might play it again but yeah games that keep me playing obviously the reason i keep playing them new interesting content you know what I mean Exploring new things I think that why now
33:20
I'm enjoying new games is because I do like that fresh start
33:23
I do like the new situations where I'm learning, because I love to learn stuff
33:27
and then I love to see that progression of getting better and I like to start, well I'm going to hop into that
33:31
new piece of content today, and that's really motivating, and obviously I don't have
33:35
that so much anymore even though there is new raids and new dungeons
33:39
so I don't have that same draw as I used to sometimes you just need a whole new world to explore
33:45
that's why I'm like I'm really looking hard into Ashes of Creation
33:49
War of Dragon Rocks also has my attention right now where I'm like
33:53
alright, Terrace Land is another one I was re-watching one of your pods
33:58
Terrace Land, yeah I was surprised by how good that was I'm not a huge fan of this being on mobile but
34:05
it looks good enough where I might not care like I don't know
34:10
I'd have to get my hands on it I just couldn't believe so obviously playing on the beta
34:15
log in and I'm like I don't know this game is going to be a mobile game
34:20
like I'm shocked that this is going to be on mobile as well like that's awesome
34:24
in some ways because like if I want to chill sat in bed oh
34:28
I'm going to hop in and run a bit of story quests while I'm
34:32
doing nothing and then like right let's hop on the pc do some dungeons and raids or whatever but yeah like i am excited for
34:39
the future but i'm i'm also nervous about stuff that gets overhyped do you know what i mean like
34:45
i think throne and liberty i don't know if you've seen that one massive hype around throne and
34:49
liberty and then they did a beta test and it was all like autoplay it was like horrendous combat and
34:57
really kind of like outdated like it's something that's been hyped for years and then it yeah so
35:02
it's a nervous time as well to kind of I think with
35:06
all the shake up that the game developers have had in the MMO
35:10
scene in recent years we're starting to see the fruits of a lot of
35:14
labor from people leaving, going out on their own joining smaller indie companies or things like that
35:22
and I think that's why it's been quiet on the MMO front for so
35:26
long because we really haven't had a big MMO launch of any
35:30
decent size or quality Like, here or there, but it used to be a lot more
35:35
Yeah, of course, yeah. And the games that we are playing now all had a lot more content being ramped up
35:41
But, you know, Blizzard had a massive shake-up. Riot had a shake-up. Everyone's kind of, everyone's split apart and shaking
35:48
But in this new shake-up of, you know, new devs forming these new companies and things like that
35:53
we're now starting to see gameplay footage. We're now starting to see alpha footage of, this is what we're working on
35:59
And a lot of this looks really good. and these are also the people that
36:03
made the games that we love like World of Warcraft and ESO
36:06
and you know Final Fantasy 14 or whatever and all of those games are kind of to the point now of
36:13
those original creators with all of those ideas are like well I want to do something new
36:18
and we're starting to see what that something new is and what's possible with
36:23
people that are with a company that willing to shake things up or things like that right I definitely kind of excited for what to come And from a creator standpoint I think you got to be on the lookout for that as well
36:34
because we both have put so much time into like MMO, RPG, tank kind of stuff
36:40
We've got to look out for that next big thing. What can we look into next
36:45
What can we do to shake things up? How much fun can we go and have taking the knowledge that we've got
36:50
and what we've built up already in how we expect things to be and how can we apply that to other games
36:55
And I think as well, with our kind of, let's say, expertise in some ways
37:01
we've got a bit of an opportunity to help the development of future games
37:07
Like I was recently on the playtest for the Elder Scrolls Online
37:12
So it was like a closed playtest actually helping to shape the new class
37:16
from a tank perspective. And luckily when they released it, so on the playtest, I thought it was terrible
37:22
I was like, oh my God, I can't believe we've waited this long for a new class and it's going to be like this that was like my secret kind
37:28
of behind the scenes thought process and i'm trying to be positive people are asking me about
37:32
i'm like trying to be positive like yeah it seems all right but i'm kind of feeding back to the devs
37:37
on what i kind of my vision was trying to find out what their vision is and seeing if we can kind of
37:42
combine those two things for a better outcome and luckily when it released a lot of my feedback from
37:47
myself and one or two others as well they really took it on board and released it and it's now
37:53
absolutely awesome and i think like if we can transfer that into other games where we're able
37:57
to go and test things and really feedback right this is how i view it from the tank perspective
38:01
and and obviously companies are willing to listen as well of how it plays out from attack because i
38:06
don't imagine many people going to testing of games and these new games that are coming out
38:11
they don't test things specifically with a lot of players from the tank perspective giving feedback
38:16
and then it releases and people like oh my god what is this and sometimes sometimes the idea of
38:23
changes on paper do not translate to playability in game right definitely yeah like i can see when
38:28
you're saying hey this is my idea for the spec that sounds awesome but when you put it to mouse
38:34
and keyboard it does not feel awesome yeah yeah so it's finding that balance right yeah and i think
38:40
what you said about new releases like the the biggest release i think we've had recently would
38:44
have been new world which is almost two years ago now and that like was massive and then flopped very
38:51
quickly. There's no game content. Yeah, there's no content. I mean, there's still trickling
38:57
it out now. A little mini-expansion, non-expansion, add-on addition. They've just released a raid yesterday
39:04
There's like a new raid that came out yesterday, but the tanking in that game, for example
39:08
there wasn't enough thought, there wasn't enough testing inside. How do they want
39:13
a tank to work? And I still don't think it's the finished article. There's so many things they could
39:17
improve, but it's like how could we shape the change of that? Can we do
39:22
something to help shape that? Hopefully they will listen to me back in the future
39:28
to change things. What they could do and I kind of hope Amazon does this because Amazon
39:32
definitely has the funds to be able to attract all of the
39:36
talent If you look at New World it is gorgeous It a beautiful game Wonderful But if they take everything they learned from New World and they like you know what MMO number two New World you have your following we going to take everything
39:48
we just learned and make that a lot better Lord of the Rings Amazon have got their hands in so many different
39:55
pies at the minute so obviously New World is their creation but they're also producing
40:00
Blue Protocol which is like for the western side they're also doing the same for
40:06
Thrown of Liberty. But then they're creating, I believe, a Lord of the Rings
40:10
MMO. And so I feel like if they can take everything they've learned from New World
40:14
and put that into Lord of the Rings, which is like they could make that into
40:20
like obviously there's already a Lord of the Rings MMO game, but if they can take everything
40:24
they've learned from New World, apply like the amazing graphics, the knowledge
40:28
with the IP, with the name Lord of the Rings, it could be
40:32
an unbelievably successful MMO game because it's got the name. Do you know what I mean
40:38
It could be massive. I don't know. The Lord of the Rings market
40:43
right now is... The numbers are there but fan reaction isn't there right now. So that's the nice they'd have to
40:53
tread with the Lord of the Rings on, I think. I did..
40:56
I said that. I watched Lord of the Rings of Power but
41:01
I'm also... I also got over my Star Wars... I'm a little toxic Star Wars fan, like, 20 years ago, right
41:09
That's the only thing I have to relate it to, right? The Star Wars fandom got so toxic at a certain point
41:15
where if you had any sort of different opinion on anything, it was a massive argument and a massive fight
41:20
between all of your other nerd friends. And Star Wars was always the thing that set this off
41:27
But I find that that sort of kind of mentality has definitely entered every stage of nerd culture
41:32
nerd culture as nerd culture has been allowed to grow and thrive and become what it has today like
41:37
you know i'm doing a we're doing a podcast on tanking world of warcraft 20 years ago i would
41:41
have been laughed out of my boots for this yeah because it's stupid nerdy shit but now i'm making
41:45
a living off taking up world of warcraft because a lot of support of you know this culture and
41:50
this community and everything that's grown around it of yeah man we like we're a generation that
41:54
grew up on video games. Our parents weren't. Yeah. It's madness
42:05
It's wild. It's wild that things have evolved over the last 20, 30 years, right? Absolutely. Absolutely
42:12
Okay. Well, I think that's everything for today. I think it's a good little introduction
42:19
to who we are. Yeah. Obviously, we're going to try and podcast
42:24
once a month. We'll invite some guests on the show and we'll have some different insights
42:32
into different things. And so, yeah. Mazurok, thank you very much for joining me today
42:39
Happy to be here. Yeah. And we'll see you next time. Bye-bye for now
42:54
you
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